ACMAONLINE= waste of money!

[Benjamin Ebertz]

Ok so if you've read any of my other discussions you may see that I might hit some nerves or may make some people upset...so here we go!

My thoughts on AMCA. First I believe it is a great concept and a wonderful tool for childrens pastors...NOW THE BADS OF IT!

1. Costs, I'm not completely positive on this but apparently to be a member you must pay a bit of money. I don't know how much but it certainly can't be cheap since you get such great offers/discounts if you join. Now in this economy that is considered a recession were suppose to shell out $79and in one part of the requirements in personal development it states to attend conferences, which I'm willing to bet the $79 + stamp of my application, that probably aren't paid for. And how many of your churches out there are willing to pay for these extras during this economic time?

2. This is really my point that pisses me off (sorry for the language mother). Apparently you have to meet all these criteria to even be considered a member.

-One year as a compensated *Children’s Minister and Ordained or

-One year as a compensated *Children’s Minister and Bible College Degree or

-Four years as a compensated *Children’s Minister

Now these don't seem to bad, or do they. The thing that's stupid about this is that this program would be wonderful for people just starting out in childrens ministry, but they can't join. Truth be told, by the time they are eligable they will have already be set in there ways. Plus how many people starting in Childrens ministry stay at the same place for a year? Wouldn't it be great to get all that this program offers to people right at there first gig? Wouldn't it give there success rate a huge boost? Of course it would, but it won't because they can't use this. Why talk to your kids about abstinence when they are delivering there first kid at 16? Wouldn't that talk of helped alot more if they would've heard it before getting pregnant?

Bottom line here is that I am excited to see what this program does, I'm just mad that only the veteran minters get to access it. Guess I will just stick to cmconnect and keep suggesting it to others.

Thoughts? Irritations? Corrections? Let me know.

[Janet Landwehr]

I am asking about it, but I don't think one should have to be compensated to be eligible. I have "been in the business" for 20+ years and can't seem to get a paying gig. Am I any less a Children's Minister? I don't think so. I am so much one that my experience is helping someone that has been "in the business" much less longer than me and does not have a 4 yr. Bible College degree like myself. I hope it's not like in HS where it's one of the "popular" kids groups!

[Benjamin Ebertz]

Exactly! Plus they need to face the facts, do the nation's biggest chidren's ministry's leaders need this, of course not. They may sign up cause they have the money for it but it will only be to get others attention they don't actually need it.

Janet Landwehr said:

I am asking about it, but I don't think one should have to be compensated to be eligible. I have "been in the business" for 20+ years and can't seem to get a paying gig. Am I any less a Children's Minister? I don't think so. I am so much one that my experience is helping someone that has been "in the business" much less longer than me and does not have a 4 yr. Bible College degree like myself. I hope it's not like in HS where it's one of the "popular" kids groups!

[Dean Butterfield]

A couple of thoughts:

1) Agree that paying $79 ANNUALLY is a bit high for a new professional association. I know there are some agencies that do a lifetime membership option at a flat rate. However, you do get some financial benefits from that membership: KMag subscription for 1 year, theClub subscription for a 1 year, etc. Another possibility would be to offer a student rate for those in school pursuing CM. For instance, here is a link to the membership options for the Association of Marriage & Family Ministers: http://www.amfmonline.com/membership.asp

2) One year as a compensated (notice it does not say how much) hardly makes one a veteran. I think what they are going for is for those who are somewhat serious about children's ministry and not just using it as a purposeful stepping stone into a different role. (Of course, one never knows exactly how God will lead, which is why I add the qualifier "purposeful.")

3) I'd be interested to see some partnerships with some of the major denominations or universities/seminaries. Right now it would simply be endorsed by a few churches (those represented by the board members) and a few companies (Kidz Matter, etc.) - again those represented by the board members. Get the Southern Baptist, the EFCA or GARBC on board to recognize this as a professional association. Partner with colleges and seminaries to further the cause of children's and family ministry educational opportunities - meaning encourage them to see the value in offering actual degrees (undergrad and graduate) in Children's & Family Ministry.

I think this group is another step in the right direction - hopefully bringing some more legitimacy to what Children's Ministers do. As time goes on it will hopefully get bigger.

Dean

PS - For the record, I will not likely be joining as I cannot afford it right now nor would my church leadership see the value in it, yet.

[Janet Landwehr]

I myself am very excited by all this. When I graduated college Children's Ministry was but a dream ... youth was Nursery through 12th grade (like many small churches (in size and mind) still today) and my degree was not a BS in Children's Ministry, but Christian Education. What this meant was I could TEACH in a Sunday School class. (This was back in the early '80s.) Times they are a changin' and we are a movin' forward and I am among those that are "out of the box" thinkers and love what is going on in Christian Education today. However, I do take offense to COMPENSATED. When asked recently in an interview how serious I was about Children's Ministry and how long do I see myself in Children's Ministry? My reply was honest and to the point, "Well I have been in Children's Ministry for 20+ years and to tell you the truth I can't really see myself doing anything else. I'll be rocking babies in my 90's." Will I be getting paid for it ... probably not, again, does it make me less of a Children's Minister - No. Am I, was I, serious about my work in Children's Ministry ... you bet your sweet britches I am/was! You see unlike most people of the opposite persuasion I won't/can't (whatever) use this as a "stepping stone" because the church were I work doesn't see me as a preacher so the pulpit probably won't be my calling. Even if I "left to do another career", I have done that before ... but who else do you think works in the Sunday School classes and Wednesday night programs ... your volunteers with other careers. So I am serious about Children's Ministry and consider myself a Children's Minister or Children's Ministry Director ... whatever you want to call it. I also am very, very, did I say VERY excited to have a formal organization to be a part of ... IF ACCEPTED.

[Michael Chanley]

Janet, you should apply... It sounds like you have enough experience and passion to rate an exception. I'm honored to serve with people like you!

Janet Landwehr said:

I myself am very excited by all this. When I graduated college Children's Ministry was but a dream ... youth was Nursery through 12th grade (like many small churches (in size and mind) still today) and my degree was not a BS in Children's Ministry, but Christian Education. What this meant was I could TEACH in a Sunday School class. (This was back in the early '80s.) Times they are a changin' and we are a movin' forward and I am among those that are "out of the box" thinkers and love what is going on in Christian Education today. However, I do take offense to COMPENSATED. When asked recently in an interview how serious I was about Children's Ministry and how long do I see myself in Children's Ministry? My reply was honest and to the point, "Well I have been in Children's Ministry for 20+ years and to tell you the truth I can't really see myself doing anything else. I'll be rocking babies in my 90's." Will I be getting paid for it ... probably not, again, does it make me less of a Children's Minister - No. Am I, was I, serious about my work in Children's Ministry ... you bet your sweet britches I am/was! You see unlike most people of the opposite persuasion I won't/can't (whatever) use this as a "stepping stone" because the church were I work doesn't see me as a preacher so the pulpit probably won't be my calling. Even if I "left to do another career", I have done that before ... but who else do you think works in the Sunday School classes and Wednesday night programs ... your volunteers with other careers. So I am serious about Children's Ministry and consider myself a Children's Minister or Children's Ministry Director ... whatever you want to call it. I also am very, very, did I say VERY excited to have a formal organization to be a part of ... IF ACCEPTED.

[Michael Chanley]

This is the best conversation I have been a part of in a really long time... I really appreciate everyone's honesty and respect of one another. I wish more people would really speak their minds like this... seriously... this is one of the reasons I created this site. Ha... who would you have vented to before? People at facebook would have thought you were just nuts to care so much about Children's Ministry... here, we get it. Thanks!

I'd like to try to answer some of your questions about the ACMA...
The price of membership is actually +$40.95. Yes, you pay $79; but, you get a free year of theClub ($100 value) and a free year of K! ($19.95 value). This is thanks to the generosity of Jim Wideman and Ryan Frank. Sounds gimmicky; but, wait... there's more... there are many other discounts offered to members. It actually ends up being a great value.

The other, more important, thing is to know why the ACMA exists. We are hoping to raise the bar for Children's Ministry as a movement. Our hope and prayer is that we will see more churches placing a higher value on ministry to children... isn't that what we all hope to do? Dean Butterfield makes a lot of great points (see his post in this string)... his comments are things we discussed when putting together the ACMA. We are trying to raise a standard so that churches will begin to invest resources in reaching this generation. Hopefully, as the ACMA grows, parents will begin to get it too.

We want to create a national awareness of the importance of ministering to children... it is not just childcare when you drop your kids off at church... it is an incredible ministry opportunity at a crucial moment in the formation of one's values. What Children's Ministers do is so very important... we have got to work toward a higher standard or no one else will.

Glad to answer any more questions... you can get a quicker response from contacting the ACMA office. Here is the email address: [e-mail]

I sincerely appreciate your honesty and candor... it is a great blessing to serve you and this community.

[Dean Butterfield]

Woo, hoo. Kudos from Mr. Chanley. hehe. I know in time those connections will be made, but one must start somewhere. For instance, I know raising the bar in CFM is a desire of Bethel's program and it seems like it would be a natural partnership. That degree, by the way, is a fully accredited Master's Degree - only one step below a Doctorate!

I am passionate about CFM, I'm passionate about education/discipleship (same thing in my opinion), and I'm passionate about relationships/networking. Looking forward to the years ahead as ACMA grows.

[Janet Landwehr]

Thanks! I know God has me where He wants me and I truly love the people I am with, but I wish people I interview with would see what you see and want to hire me ... but then again ... it all comes back to God's will I know! His plans are bigger than mine! I just have to keep reminding myself of that!

I sent an inquiry to [e-mail], but have re-sent one now to [e-mail].

Michael Chanley said:

Janet, you should apply... It sounds like you have enough experience and passion to rate an exception. I'm honored to serve with people like you!

Janet Landwehr said:

I myself am very excited by all this. When I graduated college Children's Ministry was but a dream ... youth was Nursery through 12th grade (like many small churches (in size and mind) still today) and my degree was not a BS in Children's Ministry, but Christian Education. What this meant was I could TEACH in a Sunday School class. (This was back in the early '80s.) Times they are a changin' and we are a movin' forward and I am among those that are "out of the box" thinkers and love what is going on in Christian Education today. However, I do take offense to COMPENSATED. When asked recently in an interview how serious I was about Children's Ministry and how long do I see myself in Children's Ministry? My reply was honest and to the point, "Well I have been in Children's Ministry for 20+ years and to tell you the truth I can't really see myself doing anything else. I'll be rocking babies in my 90's." Will I be getting paid for it ... probably not, again, does it make me less of a Children's Minister - No. Am I, was I, serious about my work in Children's Ministry ... you bet your sweet britches I am/was! You see unlike most people of the opposite persuasion I won't/can't (whatever) use this as a "stepping stone" because the church were I work doesn't see me as a preacher so the pulpit probably won't be my calling. Even if I "left to do another career", I have done that before ... but who else do you think works in the Sunday School classes and Wednesday night programs ... your volunteers with other careers. So I am serious about Children's Ministry and consider myself a Children's Minister or Children's Ministry Director ... whatever you want to call it. I also am very, very, did I say VERY excited to have a formal organization to be a part of ... IF ACCEPTED.

[Jim Wideman]

I too apreciate your honesty! We saw a need and started walking toward an answer. Do we have some bugs to work out? sure we do! But it's a start. A start toward people taking Children's Ministers serious and viewing us as professionals! I've watch the CM movement from the beginning some jump in and became profesionals,we've had a lot of people wanting to join the cause contact our office today (Yea!) some will watch and jump in later but the bottom line is we are going for it. A few denominations contacted us today, we expect more to come on board. I don't mind small beginnings. I'm excited about all the folks who contacted us about starting local chapters. I hope you'll do 2 things 1. Pray for us that we'll be a blessing to the body of Christ and those who minister to His kids. 2. Pray about your involvement. If you feel you need to join in, we'd love for you to.
(by the way we're a 5013C non-profit) we and our 1 employee hope we can pay her!

[Roger Fields]

I want to try to answer some of these concerns.

Trust me. Know one is making money on ACMA. The fee helps pay office expenses and impact the children of Belize. I'm sorry the $79 is so offensive. I, for one, think it is too cheap in any economy. I think the value will prove to be significant.

We struggled for a long time over the requirements. We tried to differentiate between someone who sees themselves serving in children's ministry on a long-term basis and someone who is filling a short-term need. We will continue look at the requirements and ask if they are fair. I understand the disagreement.

We will try to be responsive to legitimate concerns. This association is in its infant stage. Please be patient. We honestly want to do this right and serve the Kingdom of God.

Roger Fields

[Benjamin Ebertz]

Thanks for your response Roger,Jim, Michael.

Here's to you guys.
-Know that I am not trying to come against your company and what they are trying to do. What I am looking at is the fact that the internet has been a buzz from facebook to cmconnect to twitter about ACMA being the 1 thing that all CM should run to in order to make. It's almost put up as a savior figure, I understand that's probably a bad choice of words and also not the goal you are shooting for. So when something is given so much praise I begin to question if it's legit. I also am not a Christian who thinks that no one should make money or we should be doing everything for free, scripture talks about the fact that a man is worth his wages. I digress, because I also have studied many business models and spent time working under great business leaders so I want to make sure that your business does well and hope the best and that you do have longevity in your ministry and company.

I also feel it's great to have that accountability because so many out there don't, but I am just starting in CM where God has called me for this time in my life and I feel that others like me shortly out of Bible College should be able to have some sort of accountability and resources that ACMA offers.

I may sound like a whiner but I just feel that there is a reason why people don't stay in CM or ministry in general, and you and ACMA have a great way to help. But most of those who drop out is because at the beginning they don't get the support/accountability/nor the resources and they just get discouraged and burnt out. ACMA has great potential, my suggestion (which you don't have to take, understandably) is that you have a way to help the newbies in the ACMA organization. We wonder why so few high school students who have a relationship with Christ never return to the church once they graduate, well I guess we know it's because there is such a lack of a bridge to adulthood. I feel that this is the same reason our pastors keep falling apart so quick once they leave college. So again these are my concerns, wish I could be apart of ACMA at this time , but apparently I will have to wait another 6-12 mos. Thanks for your time.

Ben


Roger Fields said:

I want to try to answer some of these concerns.
Trust me. Know one is making money on ACMA. The fee helps pay office expenses and impact the children of Belize. I'm sorry the $79 is so offensive. I, for one, think it is too cheap in any economy. I think the value will prove to be significant.
We struggled for a long time over the requirements. We tried to differentiate between someone who sees themselves serving in children's ministry on a long-term basis and someone who is filling a short-term need. We will continue look at the requirements and ask if they are fair. I understand the disagreement.

We will try to be responsive to legitimate concerns. This association is in its infant stage. Please be patient. We honestly want to do this right and serve the Kingdom of God.

Roger Fields

[Sam Lussier]

$79 is a fair price. It's probably worth canceling cable/satellite/data-plan-for-your-new-iphone... if CM is your life.

There's a good amount of data/networking here on cmconnect for all levels of kids minister. So, why not have a "next level" resource? acmaonline.org seems like the next logical step... or at least the next logical step-in-the-right-direction (as has been stated).