Flannel graph and powerpoint are dead...bury them next to puppet ministry!!!

[Joe McAlpine]

OK, there is quite some discussion about puppet ministry...but flannel graph is over the limit on old school!!! Also if you are still using powerpoint, I strongly urge you to upgrade.

Thoughts? Questions? Comments? Let's do this thing!!!

[Michael Chanley]

Joe... I like you.

[Joe McAlpine]

My 5 year old and 3 year old won't touch Jelly Telly because nickjr is cooler. My 2 year old likes it though.

Ben CM said:

one of my favorite resources that really made me think twice about killing the flannel graph and puppet resources is Jellytelly.com the way they have takent he puppets and used video to enhance the experience is great! they even use flannel graph style animation to tell bible stories which looks great because of the way it is presented in the video.

[Joe McAlpine]

They only use puppets in their jr series. They used a puppet once in their elementary stuff (Spy Chase) and it was kinda lame.

Yes it is only flash animation but it is still a far cry from a flannel graph

Todd Liebenow said:

Interesting that you would speak so highly of the Elevate series...and it is a great series (seriously, I love it). Here's a great sample that shows two interesting things...

1. They use puppets.
2. They use what is essentially flannel graph on video. Sorry, but the Chuck Jones fan in me won't let me call a Jonah who stands there and blinks "animation."

Click the Link: Adventures in Science

[Joe McAlpine]

I like you too!!! :)

Michael Chanley said:

Joe... I like you.

[Todd Liebenow]

Sorry Joe, that's not a true statement. That clip I Iinked to comes from "Adventures in Science" which is from "Peak One" of their series for K-5th Grade.

I'm not sure I follow how flash animation is a far cry from a flannel graph. Why? Because it's on a screen? It's still just a voice talking over images of characters that aren't moving.

Here's the thing, Joe, I'm not a big fan of flannel graph myself. However...full disclosure here...I am a puppeteer. Started playing with puppets at age 2, joined a church puppet team at 12, turned professional at 23, and at 38 I'm still doing it. The company I work for built the puppet you see in that clip, as a matter of fact. Every day I get to interact with people whose lives have been changed thorugh a message presented with puppets and who are now doing the same to reach others. Many of the people I interact with are Tweens and Teens who are actively serving their church's children's ministry on the puppet team...THAT is a far cry from how many of their peers get to serve in their church's children's department (bring the cookies out for snack time and such). Having been doing this for 15 years now, I'm seeing many of the young people who were just puppet team members as teenagers now moving into full time ministry as children's pastors in their churches. I know of several who are active on this social networking site.

I realize I'm getting back to the puppets thing on the flannel graph thread, but your statements such as: "If your program thrives on puppets, then you are missing what Elementary kids are REALLY into" have me baffled. If a children's ministry is thriving and puppets (or for that matter flannel graph) are a part of that...what on earth is wrong with that!! The program is thriving!! Kids are being reached!! Kids are being saved!! That defines "thriving" to me.

Here's what I've found kids are REALLY into...being a part of what's going on. Every kid in children's church shoots their hand into the air when the teacher says "I need a helper for something." Hundreds of churches do this by using young people as puppeteers. Are they as good as Jim Henson...Great Googily Moogly, NO! But they are serving God with their talents, learning new talents, and being discipled in the process. They are being taught that serving in your church is an important thing, and what's great is that they are doing it in children's department (hopefully they will stay there the rest of their lives). And, quite frankly, if the kids in their audiences weren't responding to it, they wouldn't be doing it. They'd be getting an earfull from their peers saying how stupid the puppets are and you're a dork if you're on the puppet team.

I'm sure you're a good guy, Joe. I'm glad you've found ways of connecting with the families you serve and I'm all for discussing how to and how not to use certain tools. But, this role of being the children's ministry police...it doesn't reflect well on you...it's not your calling, man. Don't become one of those people who's "ministry" is to tell everyone else what's wrong with their ministries. As I'm typing this I've been praying that the Holy Spirit give me the right words...I don't want this to come off nasty, but I don't think you see the way some of your words come across. I hope that you will encourage people in the areas that have been successful for you, and allow the rest of us to do the same with our gifts without being told how out of touch we are.

Joe McAlpine said:

They only use puppets in their jr series. They used a puppet once in their elementary stuff (Spy Chase) and it was kinda lame.

Yes it is only flash animation but it is still a far cry from a flannel graph

Todd Liebenow said:

Interesting that you would speak so highly of the Elevate series...and it is a great series (seriously, I love it). Here's a great sample that shows two interesting things...

1. They use puppets.
2. They use what is essentially flannel graph on video. Sorry, but the Chuck Jones fan in me won't let me call a Jonah who stands there and blinks "animation."

Click the Link: Adventures in Science

[Brandon]

Just to make sure I got this -- if my flannel graph presentation is boring, if I go and videotape it, and import it into MediaShout, the kids will then like it. And if I put said video on a DVD and send it home, I'm good.

Truth be told, when we first discover "media", we tend to believe this for a little bit (that kids can't get bored with it because it's technology!! Finally! With this DVD I hold in my hand . . . Automated Children's Ministry!), but kids just aren't wired up that way.

My point... the means of delivery absolutely *does not matter* if it works for you.

Interesting thread, though. Good to see a few different perspectives.

[Scott Raney]

Joe,

Since you have shared so strongly your opinion, here's mine.

I have been in full-time ministry to kids for 17 years. I have seen the changes. Mostly good, but not always.

It always comes down to relationships. Jesus made that clear.

Flannelgraphs work ------- for pre-school age children. Is it the only way to teach God's Word to a young child, no.

Puppet ministry works----- if you have the right people involved. We have a few different characters that we use throughout the month. Each of these puppets interacts with a leader. The kids at our church love them. Do we use them every week, no. Why, repetition with characters develops boredom. Each of these characters have a distinct personality. The key is to have people do skits that are witty. Sometimes the skit may change in the middle, and you need someone who can think on their feet (not really, puppets don't traditionally have feet).

Powerpoint--- still works. If you are only using it for text only, it doesn't work. I can do amazing things with powerpoint with custom animation, triggers, timings, hyperlinks, and the use of animationfactory.com. Get to know the benefits of powerpoint.

Skits- Kids love to see people act. We have many different characters that we incorporate (Rusty Wrench, Prof. Polefish, Howie Filmit and Grandpa Spiffy)

Do I use videos, yes!!! I regularly rip youtube clips to incorporate into our service. I also use sermonspice.com and kidzmatter.com. We use ProPresenter and it makes the techie stuff run smoothly.

I do Facebook, iphone, and texting and all the other ways to communicate too.

The reality is this, use all the tools out there. The message hasn't changed in 2000 years, but the methods do. Don't use 1 method only and say, hey that works.

That is my 2 cents (worth only a penny though).

[Amy Hardeman]

We use flannel boards SOME weeks at our after school Bible club, since we can't take all our equipment to the school. The kids love it because they've never seen it before. In fact, one day, one of the kids asked me, "Pastor Amy, how do those pictures stay up there? Is it the power of God?"

Kate said:

I have to disagree about the flannel graphs. It has been around so long that it is new for our kindergarteners. We have some very gifted ladies who can keep the attention of our active 4s & 5s for over 10 minutes! While it isn't an every Sunday thing, it is neat to see the diversity that the teachers bring out. They also are able to have the kids interact with the characters in this way.

Power Point still works to show pictures of our ministry to the rest of the church during presentations.

Just some thoughts. I'll have to check out the Media Shout though. We use it for our worship services, never thought of using it for CM.

[Joe McAlpine]

Thanks for your opinion Scott. I respect your outlook on this subject.

Scott Raney said:

Joe,

Since you have shared so strongly your opinion, here's mine.

I have been in full-time ministry to kids for 17 years. I have seen the changes. Mostly good, but not always.

It always comes down to relationships. Jesus made that clear.

Flannelgraphs work ------- for pre-school age children. Is it the only way to teach God's Word to a young child, no.

Puppet ministry works----- if you have the right people involved. We have a few different characters that we use throughout the month. Each of these puppets interacts with a leader. The kids at our church love them. Do we use them every week, no. Why, repetition with characters develops boredom. Each of these characters have a distinct personality. The key is to have people do skits that are witty. Sometimes the skit may change in the middle, and you need someone who can think on their feet (not really, puppets don't traditionally have feet).

Powerpoint--- still works. If you are only using it for text only, it doesn't work. I can do amazing things with powerpoint with custom animation, triggers, timings, hyperlinks, and the use of animationfactory.com. Get to know the benefits of powerpoint.

Skits- Kids love to see people act. We have many different characters that we incorporate (Rusty Wrench, Prof. Polefish, Howie Filmit and Grandpa Spiffy)

Do I use videos, yes!!! I regularly rip youtube clips to incorporate into our service. I also use sermonspice.com and kidzmatter.com. We use ProPresenter and it makes the techie stuff run smoothly.

I do Facebook, iphone, and texting and all the other ways to communicate too.

The reality is this, use all the tools out there. The message hasn't changed in 2000 years, but the methods do. Don't use 1 method only and say, hey that works.

That is my 2 cents (worth only a penny though).

[Joe McAlpine]

Thanks Todd, I clicked the link and immediately remembered this use of puppets. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't extremely impressed with this part of the curriculum as well.

Todd Liebenow said:

Interesting that you would speak so highly of the Elevate series...and it is a great series (seriously, I love it). Here's a great sample that shows two interesting things...

1. They use puppets.
2. They use what is essentially flannel graph on video. Sorry, but the Chuck Jones fan in me won't let me call a Jonah who stands there and blinks "animation."

Click the Link: Adventures in Science

[Joe McAlpine]

I just wanted to clarify something really quick because it seems like a few have been offended by this forum, and that is not the intention here.
Do I believe in the methods that I am challenging in my forums? No I do not. But I do recognize that I am not the perfect CP and I do not have the perfect CM. These methods have not proven fruitful for me and my ministry. I do not see myself as the Children's Ministry police (it is NOT my calling...lucky guess) and I am NOT here to tell everyone what they are doing wrong. I am sorry if that is the impression you may have gotten from this post.
The title of this forum is there to generate discussion. I am sorry if it offends you and I completely understand if you do not want to be a part of it. It is here to challenge greatness in all of us, not to beat each other down. I highly respect all of you and pray for you and your ministries often.
Although it is not my calling to be the "police". I do feel it is part of my calling to challenge people to step out of the box and mold that Children's Ministry "should" be and do something bigger and greater. I will continue to do that. Thank you all for your wonderful discussion! It has been very beneficial so far and I greatly look forward to more of it!

[Todd Liebenow]

Joe...

"challenge greatness" Awesome! Go for it!
"generate discussion" Absolutely...but watch the way you do it brother.

What would be your reaction should I start a thread titled:
"Churches with web addresses ending in .TV are a sad rip off of Lifechurch.tv...especially those in Oklahoma!"
I don't think that, by the way.

What I'm getting at is that important points and issues for discussion can be raised without using language that is going automatically anger people who could both benefit from the discussion and help others with their input. We're supposed to be on the same team.

Joe McAlpine said:

I just wanted to clarify something really quick because it seems like a few have been offended by this forum, and that is not the intention here.
Do I believe in the methods that I am challenging in my forums? No I do not. But I do recognize that I am not the perfect CP and I do not have the perfect CM. These methods have not proven fruitful for me and my ministry. I do not see myself as the Children's Ministry police (it is NOT my calling...lucky guess) and I am NOT here to tell everyone what they are doing wrong. I am sorry if that is the impression you may have gotten from this post.
The title of this forum is there to generate discussion. I am sorry if it offends you and I completely understand if you do not want to be a part of it. It is here to challenge greatness in all of us, not to beat each other down. I highly respect all of you and pray for you and your ministries often.
Although it is not my calling to be the "police". I do feel it is part of my calling to challenge people to step out of the box and mold that Children's Ministry "should" be and do something bigger and greater. I will continue to do that. Thank you all for your wonderful discussion! It has been very beneficial so far and I greatly look forward to more of it!